Talk:List of video games considered the best: Difference between revisions

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* While I disagree with Hurrygane’s move, I do think we should come up with a better way to name this type of article. “Considered” is a weasel word because it’s vague as to whether actual people consider the games the best or just critics. [[User:TheJoebro64|JOE]][[User talk:TheJoebro64|BRO]][[Special:Contributions/TheJoebro64|64]] 19:10, 18 October 2018 (UTC)

 

* While I disagree with Hurrygane’s move, I do think we should come up with a better way to name this type of article. “Considered” is a weasel word because it’s vague as to whether actual people consider the games the best or just critics. [[User:TheJoebro64|JOE]][[User talk:TheJoebro64|BRO]][[Special:Contributions/TheJoebro64|64]] 19:10, 18 October 2018 (UTC)

 

**Doesn’t the page itself make it clear what the scope of the list is? What else would you suggest it be called? ~ [[User:Dissident93|”Dissident93”]] ([[User talk:Dissident93|”talk”]]) 20:25, 18 October 2018 (UTC)

 

**Doesn’t the page itself make it clear what the scope of the list is? What else would you suggest it be called? ~ [[User:Dissident93|”Dissident93”]] ([[User talk:Dissident93|”talk”]]) 20:25, 18 October 2018 (UTC)

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== Red Dead Redemption 2 deserves a place on this list. ==

  +   +

Despite tgis game releasing less than two hours ago, many critic reviews have cited this as one of the greatest games of all time, and the game’s official Wikipedia page states this fact. I think it needs to be recognized as soon as possible to let people know Rockstar has done it again! [[User:SlendyManPurse|SlendyManPurse]] ([[User talk:SlendyManPurse|talk]]) 05:50, 26 October 2018 (UTC)

Why Undertale doesn’t belong on this page. [edit]

Okay, I’ve been removing Undertale from the page for god knows how long. And I thought I might list the main reason as to why I keep doing it.

First of all, practically all of the sources for Undertale haven’t been viable enough for being on this page. Most of the sources I see are stuff like “Best Game of 2015”, “Top 10 Indie Games you Need to play” etc. The problem with those is that they are either not helpful, doesn’t talk about how Undertale is a game for the ages or are only for the year it was released in. Compare Undertale’s sources to a game like Skyrim for example. That game won A LOT of Game of the Year awards and was highly rated in Top 10 Games of 2011 list and when you look at that game’s sources, it’s mostly stuff like Top 100 Games of All Time lists and a Metacritic page, which I’ll get to later. Heck, compare it to something like Journey for example, that’s an Indie Game as well and the sources for that don’t have stuff like “Top 10 Indie Games” or “Best Games of 2012”, it has the same sources as Skyrim, features in Best Games of All Time lists and stuff like that.

Next up is Steam’s “Highest Rated Games” source. Honestly, that is a TERRIBLE source for one reason and one reason only, it is user-based. If you look at the top-rated games you can see that One Finger Death Punch a small little Indie Game that is somewhat stupid, yet awesome. Is not only above Undertale, but is at Rank TWO right behind Portal 2.

Finally, there’s Metacritic. First of all, the Metacritic page isn’t judging the Greatest games across all platforms, it talks about PC games ONLY. Also, on the Methodology section, you can see that it says that seventh generation games need to be in the Top 25 to be considered for the page. When I wrote this, Undertale is at 28th place on the best PC games and is in 159th place on the best games of all platforms. Not to mention, Metacritic has it’s OWN section on the Other Criteria part, which considers the Top 20 games on their site, which Undertale ISN’T in.

Subtracting all of the sources that are “Best of 2015” lists (-2), the lists that consider only Indie Games (Journey didn’t have them so why Undertale?) (-2) and Metacritc and Steam (-1 for both) that leaves Undertale with only 2 sources left, invalidating it’s addition to this page and as such needs to be removed. I suggest people who want to put Undertale on this page read this before considering how they do it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.215.147.168 (talkcontribs)

The Phantom Pain and Persona 5. [edit]

Hello. Should Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain and Persona 5 be put in this lists? Lacon432 (talk) 13:47, 22 May 2018 (UTC)

They need to be mentioned on at least five “best of all time” lists. See the criteria at the top of the article and previous conversations here. If you think you have sources that satisfy this, please share them here, but I’m almost sure these games will not make the cut. TarkusABtalk 14:10, 22 May 2018 (UTC)

IGN list[edit]

Is this list included? I don’t think it is: http://www.ign.com/lists/top-100-games/ TarkusABtalk 03:50, 13 June 2018 (UTC)

Well done. I’ll transcribe the list below:
IGN 2018

1. Super Mario World
2. The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
3. Portal
4. Super Metroid
5. The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
6. Super Mario Bros. 3
7. Tetris
8. Half-Life 2
9. Red Dead Redemption
10. Super Mario 64
11. Portal 2
12. Castlevania: Symphony of the Night
13. Halo: Combat Evolved
14. Super Mario Bros.
15. Street Fighter II
16. Dark Souls
17. Grand Theft Auto V
18. Chrono Trigger
19. Doom (1993)
20. The Last of Us
21. Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater
22. Half-Life
23. Halo 2
24. Minecraft
25. Civilizarion IV
26. The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild
27. Bioshock
28. Shadow of the Colossus
29. Super Mario Galaxy
30. Metal Gear Solid
31. The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt
32. Resident Evil 4
33. Metroid Prime
34. Bloodborne
35. The Legend of Zelda
36. Pokemon Yellow
37. Mass Effect 2
38. Final Fantasy VI
39. Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty
40. Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic
41. World of Warcraft
42. Starcraft
43. Diablo II
44. Resident Evil (2002)
45. Earthbound
46. Persona 4: Golden
47. Counter-Strike 1.6
48. Ms. Pac-Man
49. Baldur’s Gate II: Shadows of Amn
50. Deus Ex
51. Overwatch
52. The Legend of Zelda: Majora’s Mask
53. Uncharted 2: Among Thieves
54. Journey
55. The Witness
56. Batman: Arkham City
57. Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare
58. Mass Effect
59. Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas
60. Silent Hill 2
61. Super Mario World 2: Yoshi’s Island
62. Banjo-Kazooie
63. Fallout 3
64. Rock Band
65. The Sims
66. Team Fortress 2
67. Donkey Kong
68. Spelunky
69. Thief II: The Metal Age
70. Star Wars Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast
71. Final Fantasy Tactics
72. Dota 2
73. Battlefield 1942
74. Suikoden II
75. X-COM: UFO Defense
76. The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
77. Super Smash Bros. Melee
78. Goldeneye (1997)
79. The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker
80. Grim Fandango
81. Persona 5
82. Grand Theft Auto: Vice City
83. System Shock 2
84. Super Mario Odyssey
85. Inside
86. Contra
87. Simcity 2000
88. Soul Calibur
89. Mega Man 3
90. League of Legends
91. Undertale
92. Fallout 2
93. Burnout 3: Takedown
94. Monkey Island 2: LeChuck’s Revenge
95. The Oregon Trail
96. Star Wars: TIE Fighter
97. Warcraft II: Tides of Darkness
98. Galaga
99. Final Fantasy VII
100. Pokemon Go

IGN2015

01. Super Mario Bros. 3
02. The Legend of Zelda: A Link To The Past
03. Doom
04. Super Mario Bros.
05. Portal 2
06. Half-Life 2
07. Super Metroid
08. The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
09. Halo 2
10. Tetris
11. Super Mario 64
12. Sid Meier’s Pirates! (1987)
13. Chrono Trigger
14. Super Mario World
15. Minecraft
16. Grand Theft Auto V
17. Portal
18. Baldur’s Gate II: Shadows of Amn
19. Deus Ex
20. Street Fighter II
21. Super Mario Galaxy
22. Halo
23. Star Wars: TIE Fighter
24. Civilization IV
25. Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater
26. Half-Life
27. Castlevania: Symphony of the Night
28. Final Fantasy VI
29. Red Dead Redemption
30. The Legend of Zelda
31. Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic
32. Rock Band
33. Battlefield 1942
34. Shadow of the Colossus
35. World of Warcraft
36. Bioshock
37. Silent Hill 2
38. Mass Effect
39. Journey
40. Dark Souls
41. Metal Gear Solid
42. Counter-Strike
43. Resident Evil 4
44. Banjo-Kazooie
45. Diablo II
46. Metroid Prime
47. Uncharted 2: Among Thieves
48. The Last of Us
49. Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare
50. Dota 2
51. Mass Effect 2
52. Pokemon Yellow
53. Ms. Pac-Man
54. Thief II: The Metal Age
55. Star Wars: Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast
56. StarCraft
57. Mechwarrior 2
58. Team Fortress 2
59. Persona 4 Golden
60. Donkey Kong
61. Grim Fandango
62. Monkey Island 2: LeChuck’s Revenge
63. Super Smash Bros. Melee
64. The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
65. Burnout 3: Takedown
66. Goldeneye (1997)
67. Final Fantasy Tactics
68. Suikoden 2
69. Gran Turismo 3: A-Spec
70. Mega Man 2
71. Tom Clancy’s Rainbow Six 3: Raven Shield
72. Spelunky
73. Warcraft II: Tides of Darkness
74. League of Legends
75. EarthBound
76. Devil May Cry 3: Dante’s Awakening
77. Zork
78. Fallout 3
79. Tony Hawk’s Pro Skater 2
80. Final Fantasy VII
81. The Secret of Monkey Island
82. Resident Evil 2
83. Fallout 2
84. Contra
85. X-COM: UFO Defense
86. Mike Tyson’s Punch-Out!!
87. SimCity 2000
88. Grand Theft Auto: Vice City
89. The Oregon Trail
90. System Shock 2
91. Batman: Arkham Asylum
92. Super Mario World 2: Yoshi’s Island
93. Ico
94. Donkey Kong (Game Boy)
95. Super Mario Galaxy 2
96. The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker
97. Galaga
98. Perfect Dark
99. Advance Wars
100. The Walking Dead (2012)

Will figure out what’s to be added in a bit. Phediuk (talk) 16:36, 13 June 2018 (UTC)

  • Note that this is an updated version of their 2015 list, and even uses the same URL. Some games may have been removed altogether in favor of newer ones, and may have to be removed from this list because of that. I’ve placed the 2015 version for comparison below to help. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 22:50, 13 June 2018 (UTC)
    • IGN’s 2015 list is still easily accessible through archives, so I’ve kept it in, and updated the reference accordingly. I just finished incorporating their 2018 list also; there are three new entries as a result, those being Inside, Overwatch, and Zelda: Breath of the Wild. Phediuk (talk) 00:11, 16 June 2018 (UTC)

Super Mario Odyssey[edit]

Would Super Mario Odyssey make this list? It’s been critically acclaimed everywhere and is considered just as good as Breath Of The Wild. 92.30.80.139 (talk) 10:42, 6 July 2018 (UTC)

See the top of the article. The game must be included on at least five lists. It took a while for Breath of the Wild to make it onto this list for this same reason. Will probably take Odyssey another year. TarkusABtalk 10:53, 6 July 2018 (UTC)
It most likely will yes, but hasn’t been added due to it not being included in five different “best of all time” list publications. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 01:03, 7 July 2018 (UTC)

There is no 2014 listing!?[edit]

That’s basically all I wanted to say. I did not find any discussion in the talk archives, either, but I cannot imagine that it has been omitted accidentally! Can anyone explain this?203.184.42.209 (talk) 07:48, 7 July 2018 (UTC)

The games in 2014 were not exceptional I guess haha. Kinda joking there, but really…we need five sources to list a game, and 2014 was not that long ago, so it seems no game from 2014 was good enough to appear consistently in the few lists published since then. Give it a couple more years for some more lists to show up, and I’m sure a couple will meet the criteria then. TarkusABtalk 11:38, 7 July 2018 (UTC)
2014 was apparently not a favored year for gaming critics. So as none of them currently fit the criteria, so we can’t really do anything about that. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 18:22, 7 July 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 30 August 2018[edit]

Can we change the publishers section into developers instead? All Nite (talk) 10:11, 30 August 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: No, publishers are not always the same as developpers. L293D ( • ) 19:58, 30 August 2018 (UTC)

How about we add a developer column alongside the publisher one? Folks OK with that? I think it’s fair to give credit to the company that actually made the game. TarkusABtalk 20:49, 30 August 2018 (UTC)

We originally had one in the first stages of the massive cleanup, but I removed it because I thought it was just bloating the list. Listing publishers over developers help set a more consistent standard due to the fact they usually own the copyright of the game, with the exact studio involved for some series changing on a game-to-game basis. Nobody opposed the move when I did it (until now), so I would think that most would have agreed with it. And while I agree that giving credit to the developers would be a fair thing to do, I just don’t think it’s as important as the publishers here. However, I do oppose replacing the publisher column here with the developers, per the OP. We should either have both, or just the publisher per the current format. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 21:05, 30 August 2018 (UTC)

I don’t actually think that the list is bloated at all, in fact I feel that it’s rather empty as if it’s missing something. I think we should just add a developer column next to the publisher one. Also I think the reason why nobody opposed your removal of the developers column was probably because no one actually cared but I’m a rather strange and picky person so that’s why I pointed it out. All Nite (talk) 23:45, 30 August 2018 (UTC)

Well like I said above, I wouldn’t oppose it coming back, but it has to belong alongside the publisher field (and not as a replacement). I’d also like to see more support for it by other primary editors of the page. @Phediuk: for one. If there is a stronger consensus for this, I’ll help add them to the table. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 02:56, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

I don’t really see the need, to be quite honest. Publishers are generally simpler to determine since virtually all games are initially published by only one, and they tend to own the games in question anyway. Listing developers gets messy when multiple studios develop a game (many of the later games on the list) or if the developer is ambiguous (e.g., who should be credited for Zork?) I’m voting no, in the interest of keeping things simple. Phediuk (talk) 03:28, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

Pretty much my original reasoning then. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 15:35, 4 September 2018 (UTC)
I just checked out this page and they included the developers column. Despite the fact that there can be multiple developers like COD, the list only included the major developers and I believe we could do the same for this list. All Nite (talk) 02:37, 4 September 2018 (UTC)

Well, WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. It could probably be removed there for the same reasons me and Phediuk claimed if needed. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 15:35, 4 September 2018 (UTC)

Should we have a column with the number of references?[edit]

I guess it would be useful to sort the games by the total number of lists that referenced them, it is not easy to do it now. (FWIW, #1 is Super Mario 64 AFAICT) —Netol (talk) 23:08, 29 September 2018 (UTC)

No. It would naturally favor older games and imply they are somehow greater than more recent entries. TarkusABtalk 00:34, 30 September 2018 (UTC)
I also oppose this proposal, as implying a ranking of games based on the number of references runs afoul of WP:SYNTH. Phediuk (talk) 05:55, 30 September 2018 (UTC)
We already got rid of this from a previous version of the list for the same above reasons. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 16:27, 30 September 2018 (UTC)

I don’t know how to reply on talk pages but I find it a real travesty how Morrowind was not mentioned but Skyrim was, Skyrim may have received a lot of rewards but it isn’t a better TES game than Morrowind is. — Preceding unsigned comment added by DarkStar-BlackSun (talkcontribs) 06:10, 3 October 2018 (UTC)

That’s your opinion. The sources list Skyrim enough times to warrant inclusion. They did not do so for Morrowind. TarkusABtalk 10:23, 3 October 2018 (UTC)
Awards are not currently accounted for inclusion. Although I am also surprised Morrowind isn’t here, if it’s not included on five lists from five different reliable publications, it doesn’t belong here. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 20:43, 3 October 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 October 2018[edit]

add Sonic 3 & Knuckles to 1994 76.66.170.123 (talk) 03:00, 13 October 2018 (UTC)

Not done Point me to 5 reliable sources which list Sonic 3 & Knuckles as such and I will add it , otherwise no. JC7V-constructive zone 03:40, 13 October 2018 (UTC)

@Hurrygane: Just so you know, I reverted your move. I’m somewhat guessing since you only explained yourself with “precise”, but if this was a grammar complaint, I don’t think it has much merit – “best” can routinely refer to groups or multiple entities (see : https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/best#Noun , ” The person (or persons; or thing or things) that is (are) most excellent. “). It’s just made clear by context – and in this case, “List of” and “video games” plural make clear that’s the intended meaning. The title is already a bit unwieldy due to needing to include “considered” for NPOV reasons; no need to make it even longer. SnowFire (talk) 16:27, 18 October 2018 (UTC)

  • Yeah, the current title follows WP:CONCISE (and the list of films considered the best page, which is what this was based on. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 17:03, 18 October 2018 (UTC)
  • While I disagree with Hurrygane’s move, I do think we should come up with a better way to name this type of article. “Considered” is a weasel word because it’s vague as to whether actual people consider the games the best or just critics. JOEBRO64 19:10, 18 October 2018 (UTC)
    • Doesn’t the page itself make it clear what the scope of the list is? What else would you suggest it be called? ~ Dissident93 (talk) 20:25, 18 October 2018 (UTC)

Red Dead Redemption 2 deserves a place on this list. [edit]

Despite tgis game releasing less than two hours ago, many critic reviews have cited this as one of the greatest games of all time, and the game’s official Wikipedia page states this fact. I think it needs to be recognized as soon as possible to let people know Rockstar has done it again! SlendyManPurse (talk) 05:50, 26 October 2018 (UTC)


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